ForLoveFromFear

kurahieiritrjio:

jeza-red:

jennypen:

celciusdiscourse:

nasappho:

w4rgoddess:

jennypen:

professor-homosexual:

jennypen:

“Ew you’re an adult why are you in fandom”
Kid, if being mocked for fandom shit wasn’t enough to stop me when I was an actual 15 year old, hearing it from a 15 year old when I’m 30 is genuinely hilarious

mmm this post makes me. Uncomfy. people are allowed to like things with no age limit, but its important to not overstep boundaries and stay in your lane.

and chances are if a teenager is shaming you for being in a fandom, its their way of saying “i dont want you to interact with me. go away.” and thats that. dont try to start an argument or fight because there is a Very obvious power imbalance. just leave them be.

you, and all the other people in the notes saying similar things. you are adults. you hold higher societal power than teenagers and children. teenagers and children sometimes see adults in areas they consider “for their age group only” and their “stranger danger” instincts kick in and they immediately feel like that person is a predator.

its perfectly reasonable for those people to want to avoid ppl that are way older than them bc its uncomfortable, and bc theres an obvious power imblance.

like i said before, you are adults. you should know this. dont go off on me saying “what are you gonna? call your momma?” or some shit. dont do that petty shit.

i understand your frustration. but that doesnt mean you dont have to respect other peoples boundaries.

teenagers have time to learn. they have time to grow, and they have time to mature. you did too. show it by not being petty to someone under half your age.

Actually this post started well over a year ago because a fan of my fanfic sent me a glowing message about how good it is (and I write mature content) but then when they went through my blog and discovered that I was 32 and had a kid myself they sent me a rude message telling me that it’s disgusting that I’m still in fandom because fandom is for children and no-one else. This after reading my adult content.

This person literally read my 18+ fanfic on ao3. They came to an adult fanfic space, and then told me I shouldn’t be in fandom because I’m 18+. The point you are making is very valid, but I’ll tell you something in my experience – adults tend to keep to themselves and avoid children in fandom where they are. My main fandom I’ve written, every single friend I’ve made in the fandom is 24+, and the ones who are my fanfic friends in particular are all 30+. Just naturally gravitated towards each other because of mutual interest.

There is a huge wave of puritanical harassment in fandom at the moment (which rose to prominence after I made this post as it happens) where minors go into adult spaces in fandom (on ao3 it warns you and they go past that anyway) and then callout those adults. If you want to talk about ‘staying in your lane’, please take note of this huge anti movement against adult content and tell me who is the one doing so.

This entire thread is full of adults all the way into their 70s who have had young, newer entrants into fandom mock them purely for their age. Ageism in fandom is unbelievably prevalent – younger fans misperceive a lot about their fellow fandom members. Someone commented on this thread yesterday and called tumblr (and by extension, fandom) ‘a place for children’ (largest demographic on tumblr is 18-29 y/o, second is 30-35 so not sure where that perception comes from – my own tumblr blog is over 9 years old and when I first joined it was all early-adopting adults posting images mostly, fandom hadn’t actually made the move over from live journal just yet, though it was beginning) and how this is purely adults ‘circlejerking’ who need to ‘get a real hobby’ and ‘go look after their children or cats or something’. THAT attitude is why I posted it in the first place – the VERY persistent attitude from newer fans that adults don’t belong, aren’t allowed, are creepy and weird merely for enjoying media the same way they do.

We do respect boundaries. We enjoy, we post, we have fun. We tag mature content, because we make it for ourselves and we remember a time where that wasn’t possible and we casually came across adult content and knew it was wrong (the first piece of porn fanfic I came across I was 12 and I backed out of it and didn’t come back for a few years but it was just on a list with other fic, no content rating, nothing). We do not think that younger people don’t deserve to be in fandom – we embrace people joining and loving the things we do. However, when so many, many people on this post share the same experience of having been on the end of the same attitude and behaviour, you need to listen and see that there is a problem. Ageism is rife in fandom, because of the perception that enjoying media enough to want to connect with others about it is ‘just for kids’ the way cartoons are ‘just for kids’ and anime is ‘just for kids’. It’s not. It’s for everyone.

When I was younger, the idea of being in fandom (and especially a woman in fandom – there was mainstream male nerdism and then female nerdism and especially queer nerdism was quite underground, still, in 1997) and writing fic and (lesserly) fanart was seen as strange – my peers made fun endlessly and I had no real life peers who had any interest in fandom the way I did. However, I kept going. Now fandom is mainstream accepted, to the point that voice actors in some fandoms casually name ships for the fandom to use! But now, as an older fan, the mocking comes from younger fans who see adults in fandom as weird, perhaps because they feel that the fandom belongs to them? I don’t know. I’ve never understood the malice that goes into when younger fans make fun of older fans, given that we are present and a normal part of fandom, that we create zines and run cons and organise so much of fandom.

What you read in the notes of this post is a large group of people who identify with having been on the end of abuse of some kind. That is something we do not have to put up with, do not have to ‘have patience for’. Coming as a parent, I would never let my kid treat someone like the way many people here have treated other fans – I would reprimand, educate. I’m not perfect though, and sometimes an off the cuff reaction to being made fun of is natural, especially to repeated offences. Expecting adults to put up with this kind of rude behaviour and just sit back and go ‘oh, they’ll learn eventually’ is cruel – you’re asking people who are being purposely marginalised to just shut up and accept it because ‘well, let kids be kids’. We’re not talking about 4 year olds. We’re talking about teenagers, who should know the basics of ‘don’t make fun of someone for simply enjoying something’.

This tiny little post of ‘I’ve put up with being made fun of for being in fandom a lot, if I didn’t give it up then I’m not going anywhere now’ somehow managed to identify with a lot of people, showing that this kind of ageism is widespread and hurtful, but it’s also against a group of people who have put up with it enough in their lives to be resilient and not let it force them out.

^^^This. Every “what are you still doing in fandom” interaction I’ve ever had has come from some kid intruding on my adult space, and trying (and failing) to police me out of it. Which only makes sense to me; older fans have boundaries because learning to respect boundaries is part of maturation. Teens are still figuring that out, so they try to create lines where those lines don’t belong. The problem is that some of them then get pissed when they’re told to stop. Getting angry when somebody says no is a childish reaction. It means they aren’t mature enough to be here, yet.

Also, some of these kids are mistaking the nervousness and discomfort that comes of entering a new space – which isn’t age-related – for a threat. Which really just means they don’t have the experience to tell the difference, yet. And since their parents aren’t doing a good job of teaching them how to interact with strangers, it falls upon us to tell them what’s what. So: it is not reasonable for teens to do the “stranger danger” thing when they are the newbies coming into an established community. It is not reasonable for them to be uncomfortable around adults – not when they are entering an adult space. If they do have these reactions, then they’re not yet mature enough to be here. And rather than try and shove the adults out of their own space, they should probably go away for a while, get some life experience, and come back when they’re ready to hang with the big kids.

okay, offense, but you dont get to tell people theyre “creating [boundaries] where those lines don’t belong”, especially teens and children. other people laying down their own boundaries when it comes to interacting with you isnt immature

also, given that op is reblogging nsfw voltron art i think its safe to say you don’t actually give a shit when the space isnt made for you, like a goddamn kids cartoon, which, yes, adults can enjoy, but apparently can’t understand that they are not the primary audience for

How did you…. manage to miss the point so hard? There’s a HUGE difference between enforcing personal boundaries (good, important, necessary, 1000% agreed) and forcing everyone older than some arbitrary cut-off out of a public space. Teens should absolutely place boundaries and other people should absolutely respect them. But did you like… Even read the OP? At all? This is not about kids saying “I’m uncomfortable interacting with you”, it’s specifically the kind of entitled brats who actively bitch at people just for being too old and still in fandom.

But then you equate adults sharing nsfw content amongst eachother with not caring when a space is made for you (talk about bringing in completely irrelevant opinions and reachy assumptions), which is the most ironic shit I heard, considering modern fandom culture has largely grown out of the underground fan activities of grown women decades ago. Who’s really encroaching on space and crossing boundaries set to protect both author and consumer here. The cartoon is for kids + potential others, sure, but online fandom is for everyone.

I literally already addressed this, as the person above me has said, so I’m just gonna quote myself here:

We do respect boundaries. We enjoy, we post, we have fun. We tag mature content, because we make it for ourselves and we remember a time where that wasn’t possible and we casually came across adult content and knew it was wrong (the first piece of porn fanfic I came across I was 12 and I backed out of it and didn’t come back for a few years but it was just on a list with other fic, no content rating, nothing). We do not think that younger people don’t deserve to be in fandom – we embrace people joining and loving the things we do. However, when so many, many people on this post share the same experience of having been on the end of the same attitude and behaviour, you need to listen and see that there is a problem. Ageism is rife in fandom, because of the perception that enjoying media enough to want to connect with others about it is ‘just for kids’ the way cartoons are ‘just for kids’ and anime is ‘just for kids’. It’s not. It’s for everyone.

What on earth about me reblogging mature content about any media subject invalidates that point, or is so wrong that it’s not allowed? If I watch a show and go ‘oh man, I love the connection between those two characters, I’m gonna write a fic about them in a romantic relationship and maybe include them having sex because it would be so great given the canon interactions they have’, what on earth is wrong about that? Because that’s what fandom IS. Fandom is when something someone else has created speaks to you on a level enough that you want to explore it more than the creator has done, accepting that everything else beyond the canon content is personal opinion and enjoyment. Whether it’s NSFW or universally appropriate for even a 3 year old to read, it’s all FANDOM. Fandom is the extension of when you watch a show with your friend and go ‘oh man, they are SO cute together’ and your friend goes ‘right!?!?!’ – it’s when you go and do something about it, discuss it, create art, write fic, connect with others. What does it matter what the source material is? As long as when you create content intended for adults only that you do your best to make sure that anyone not mature enough for it, or that it’s not aimed for, won’t accidentally come across it, then I fail to see the issue here, @nasappho.

There is a very large difference between ‘this thing I made is not suitable for children so I’m going to try to make sure they don’t come across it’ and ‘this person shouldn’t be allowed to even be in fandom because they’re adults’. Fandom is for everyone, but not every piece of content IN fandom is for everyone. That doesn’t mean that anyone should be excluded from fandom in general, only that unsuitable content should be ensured that it’s safely put in the right place. Think of it like music! Everyone is allowed to like music, but there’s a subset of people who make music that deals with mature themes, or has excessive swearing, so that music is warned for. Oh, and of course, some people enjoy listening to music while drinking alcohol, so there are spaces that are adults-only that stop those who aren’t allowed to drink alcohol from entering. Same as movies – movies in general are for everyone, but are graded so that mature movies don’t get shown to those it’s unsuitable, and the places that show movies or sell movies won’t do so to those too young for the content. There is zero difference between enjoying canon content, and fanon content. Everyone is allowed to enjoy the concept in general, but some of it is for adults-only. Adults work hard to create safe spaces that makes sure that fandom is a safe place for everyone to be able to enjoy and contribute and create and connect and share their love of something, whether it’s generally suitable or mature themed, so that the right people see the right thing for them. They introduce the tagging facility, they made add-ons that allow you to blacklist things long before the actual platform itself even thinks of that concept. Adults are the ones shaping fandom into a place where everyone can enjoy what they like, and avoid what they don’t or shouldn’t.

Also, as a point – this gets overlooked CONSTANTLY when people talk about Voltron specifically and call it a kids show – it’s not just a kids show. It has two distinct audiences – kids for whom it is suitable, but also adults who are nostalgic about the show of THEIR youth. The uproar over the hints of Allurance at the end of S7 were baffling to anyone older than 25 because that’s actually… canon in the older show, and the reason for its inclusion in the new show. Netflix’s key paying audience retention strategy is to hit them with redone versions of the shows from their youth – Voltron, She-Ra, Sabrina the Teenage Witch but EDGIER a la the comic (which was effectively a fucking fanfic to begin with), Lost in Space, Gilmore Girls – saying that these aren’t for adults and they are kids shows only is missing a huge part of who they’re being created for. The reason the kids shows themselves are chosen is not just for the nostalgia but because it means these adults, many of whom are at the age where they’ve probably had children, can share parts of their OWN youth with their family. It’s partly why I watched Voltron, why I lost my entire mind when they announced She-Ra. These ‘kids shows’ are for adults, too.

The most interesting part of this whole wave of puritanical outrage is that the “kids” who shame adults for enjoying their adult content, enjoy it too – most of them are here specifically for that content. (Please don’t pretend otherwise, tumblr is hardly a safe space, it’s a porn central of the Internet). They want the adult content – fanart, fanfic, meta, not all adult content is pornographic in nature, some is just mature, well written, etc, but without the adults attached to it.

Wanting to have their cake and eat it too.

All other entertainment venues protect the underaged audiences by barring them entrance and it’s only on the Internet that the “kids” are able so ignore the warnings and walls meant to keep them out and safe – yes, I’m over 18 is, skip warning, I want to see the content – and then complain they aren’t being protected enough, and blame it on the adults present.

It’s like a kid that sneaked into a strip bar, hid under the tables, watched the show and, when found out and questioned, blamed the strippers for preforming.

Its two faced and disingenuous, and, frankly, its bullshit.

And this pretty well sums up the insanity of the go away adults nonsense in spades. Without adults, kids can’t break the rules to read mature/porn based stories as the platforms where it is shared go away. Without adults paying for the sites to exist, they cease to exist.

If us old farts go away so do the fanfiction sites and all the things the little shits want so badly since it is the adult fandom group that pays for such sites to exist in the first place. It isn’t like kids can pay for sites like AO3 themselves, nor any of the rest of the hassles that come from being adults and creating everything that the ingrate kids want so badly either. Without adults in fandom, the internet content for mature and sexual relationships collapses. WIthout an adult’s money to make sites possible, and keep them going, the sites cease to exist children.

My generation helped create places like Fanfiction net back when internet was first developed. If folks like me leave fandom, the the kids can kiss all the major web sites and major archives for fandom goodbye because our money won’t be involved any longer. It is our adult fandom money that makes it possible for kids to read what we write. Without adults, fandom sites collapse and that’s the major reality at the end of the day.

“Tired. Just Eight Tired…”